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Liam O'Connor is moving fast, very fast. Tasman Rope Access is shaking up the way companies access and manage their assets, particularly from the outside (think oil, gas, mining, civil construction industries and people abseiling down the side where scaffold once used to be). Overseeing about 400 technicians all around Australia using IRATA trained staff.
Brendan: Welcome to Episode 22 of the Australian Health and Safety business podcast. I’m Brendan Torazzi, the host of the show. Today, I’m with Liam O’Connor from Tasman Rope Access. Good morning Liam.
Liam: Good morning, Brendan. How are you?
Brendan: I’m well. Thanks for coming on the show this morning. Tell me a little bit about what Tasman Rope Access does.
Liam: We’ve been around since early 2015 when we sort of jumped on board with the original company Tasman Power. The board of directors came together and identified a niche in the market for rope access. The best way that I can put it for anyone that is listening that doesn’t know what it is. When you walk down the street and you see guys outside on the side of buildings cleaning the windows that is what we do effectively but we basically put men and women on to the ropes across oil and gas, mining, agriculture, defence, civil construction and a whole range of industries. There’s never a quiet day as you can imagine.
Brendan: Presumably like in oil and gas what sort of work would they be doing when they attending to machinery?
Liam: It all depends on the specific work. A lot of the time it’s wrapping pylons and a lot of blasting and painting, protective coating applications, that side of things. Basically wherever scaffolders are required. We can stick people on ropes down there and away we go. When it comes to just the one or two services it’s very varied so we tend to have quite a few services done in the same work order.
Brendan: How many people do you employ in the rope access business?
Liam: There’s about 450 members of our crew worldwide. On our books we checked the other day just over 410. We’ve got over 250 technicians out across Australia. It’s nice and busy. We just can’t keep up with the work at the moment unfortunately.
Brendan: I’ve come across IRATA a little bit before. What is the difference between IRATA training and say you’re working at heights ticket? Do you need both?
Liam: The IRATA is split into different levels. When you first come in to the industry you do a Level 1. That is a five day course with a half day assessment at the end of it. It teaches you a whole bunch of passing knots. The foundations of rope access. Then you get given what is called a logbook. You get given the card and then all the way through your career you get your hours signed off and the type of work by your Level 3 who is the rope access safety coordinator for that area. You want to do a thousand hours logged and then you pass a year you’re eligible to sit with the Level 2s. It’s a little bit more intensive and then from there it’s another thousand hours. Then you can basically become a Level 3. We do find that the younger guys and girls don’t tend to go to a Level 3 straightaway simply because they’re off the ropes. They set the area up. It’s affectionately known as pole polisher in the industry. They lean on a pole and make sure everyone is all right. They perform rescues. That is a nice specialized gig for them.
Brendan: People getting in the industry it sounds like they genuinely love being on the ropes so to speak whereas Level 3 is more of a manager or a supervisor or something like that.
Liam: It’s a very special type of person in the rope access industry with the height alone. We’ve got guys in their spare time they go skydiving. We’ve got a couple of Red Bull sponsored guys. I’ve got emails the other day from a group of guys on their break and they’re climbing glaciers. It’s an adrenaline junkie sort of industry for sure.
Brendan: It’s a lifestyle.
Liam: It is and these guys live and breathe it. It’s a lot of fun.
Brendan: How do you play into all of this Liam? Have you gone through that IRATA training yourself? How did you get to the role you are now and what do you do?
Liam: Basically I fell into it. Like most people I was completely oblivious to this whole industry. It was very underground at that point in time. Now it’s sort of become more mainstream especially with mining picking up the rope access side of things. Basically I was made redundant from a previous role. I was working for a national engineering company. Like everyone who goes through redundancy you go through that full range of emotions when you basically come to re-assess everything. I applied for a job with a company called Tasman. I got pulled in for an interview. They said, we’ve got HSC manager role. Would you be interested? We’ve got this little side project going on at the moment called Tasman Rope Access with a brand new general manager who is being relocated from the east coast to help build it and basically I’ve gone on like a house on fire. After a year another operations manager jumped on board.
The three of us pretty much since early 2016 have been building the Tasman Rope Access side. On top of that I also look after Tasman Power, the electrical side of the business as well. It’s about 150 to 180 sparkies out in the field at any one time. Then the board of directors which own the company based in South Australia. I have taken a step up to the group role with them so I’m working across South Australia, New South Wales, Queensland subsidiaries as well. It’s a very full on especially the time difference between WA and the rest of the states especially in the summer months.
Brendan: Is the bulk of Tasman Rope Access in WA or is it national?
Liam: It is national. About 60% of the work is across West Australia. About 10% to 15% is South Australia. The remainder over in our Queensland office as well. We just branched into Mount Isa and Weipa and a couple of other places around there.
Brendan: The company is pretty young. I know that you’ve got Tasman Power. Why do you think there was such a gap in the market? Presumably all these companies, all these industries needed these services. What was happening before?
Liam: The issues is people look at someone dangling off a rope and they automatically go no. That is not coming on to my site. It’s more about the educational piece with the interesting Australian standards. There is a rope access standard but it hasn’t been updated for two and a half decades. The same goes for working at heights. It’s a self-regulated industry with the accreditations by IRATA on top of that and then as they realize the potential reductions in dropped objects and scaffolding risks. That poor boy over in Sydney the other week. It’s a prime example. It’s self-regulated and there’s Level 3 self-influence down the field as well. The clients see the safety side of things as a positive after a little education session on what rope access is and then on top of that where to access pretty much any area without the need for scaffolds so you save all the money on the scaffolding costs and the additional tradesmen and the time lost between changing permits and changing up the equipment. It’s a safer option and on top of that it’s a safer and more time effective option as well.
Brendan: It’s a real win-win for everyone.
Liam: It is, yes.
Brendan: Go back a little bit for me. How did you start your career in health and safety?
Liam: First of all I got my gig with Rio Tinto as a graduate. It was a three month position then extended to six. At the end of six I jumped over to BHP at the start of the mining game. I’ve been involved ever since. I moved over to now Gibson Mining, Tallering Peak, Extension Hill and there was another one in Koolan before all the fun went down there with the actual thing collapsing. I moved on to Sodexo up in Karratha. From there I moved into that national role with the engineering company. That was 2012 I believe. I’ve been here since 2015. It’s just fun and games ever since.
Brendan: You were a graduate at Rio. Did you have tertiary qualifications?
Liam: I’m one of those weird guys who likes to study a little bit of everything. I’m an undergrad in OHS through Edith Cowan. My main background with the qualifications is pretty much all legal because back in 2010 almost I think it was I could sort of see the whole market was sort of shifting towards a national harmonization and obviously with that comes a whole bunch of legal compliance and the corporate governance that goes on top of it as well. I started studying law, international business law, business, commerce, a lot of commercial stuff. It’s definitely come in handy especially as the career has sort of grown and the work of safety sort of figures itself out over the next couple of decades as well.
Brendan: What do you see when we were speaking before you mentioned mental health. How does that sort of play into what you’re doing now? Is it an issue for people working on sides of buildings and that sort of thing or are they generally pretty up because they’ve got adrenalin pumping and it’s an exciting job?
Liam: It’s more the remoteness. I’m going through a whole rant but I’ll save your listeners. Basically the way it works is the guys and girls work away. They’re away from their family. They’re away from their support network and on top of that you’ve got a whole range of emotions going on because the whole mind is all over the joint between disjointed sleep, between transitioning from days to nights and back again half the time and then 12 hour shifts and then travelling to and from site. Sometimes the food is not too fantastic and the gym routine gets thrown out. On top of that you’re expected to Skype the wife, the husband, the kids and keep some form of sanity. For us, the main thing that we really focus on with our crews is that if anything personal comes up that you need to go sort out. We don’t need to know the specifics but just know you can be flying out at any time.
Brendan: That is amazing. I wouldn’t imagine that many companies would take that approach.
Liam: We have to. First of all the rope access industry is one big family anyway. Secondly I much prefer someone being able to have the ability to leave site and go sort the issues out and then potentially the complete opposite and this thing happening which it does happen the mining or the gas industry a fair bit. It just doesn’t really get too much exposure to be honest. For us, we’ve got all the basic stuff in the background, all the healthy eating and engagement and the real community sense and the recognition programs. On top of that we’ve also got the professional development that goes on internally. We have taken people aside and said look, this is your PD program that we envision you for the next three to five years. We do have traditionally a younger workforce on average. The moment that we find out what they’re all about, what they want to do with their career we can sort of come in and say look, this isn’t just a shot. You’re not just looking for this 10 days of work and then you’re gone away and then come back for another three. We want to bring you on board for the next three to five years and start and develop you as a person and in your career as well.
Brendan: For the younger people listening to the show is it either paid well? I guess it depends on what level you are in some ways.
Liam: It is. Level 3 is obviously gets paid the most because of the way that it works is you can’t actually have a work area set up without a Level 3. Level 1s and 2s you’d be looking at about four weeks’ worth of courses. I’m not too sure of the rights from other companies but it’s very well paid. It’s definitely more than that because down the road we’re working a buzz off it for sure.
Brendan: I guess what you’re saying is with the four weeks of training can anyone pick it up or do you have to have to have a special skillset to do this type of work?
Liam: The entering to the industry is rigging and dogging but we do have the majority of our workforce who tried qualified welders, a few fitters, electricians. As long as someone is pretty savvy with how to use a hand tool the company can take them under their wing and teach them what they need to get done out in the field.
Brendan: It’s not just being on the ropes. It’s actually being able to do stuff while you’re on there as well. Do people tend to stick around for quite a while?
Liam: We found we’ve got a good retention rate in the low 90% simply because we focus so much on the culture of the company. I’m not saying that everyone holds hands and skips off into the sunset. We’re really particular on the culture and just because someone has a rope access ticket doesn’t mean that they come in straight on to our books. We hold everyone against our values as a company and where they’re going to fit in with the crews, ourselves and that is where that social impact program that we’re running currently as well. Our values align with different contractors out and we’re happy to fill gaps and use the company as an instrument for positive change.
Brendan: How do you grow it from here? Is it a challenge getting enough staff?
Liam: We’re doing a lot of trade expos at the moment just raising the awareness. We’re going to schools. We’re going to trade colleges, word of mouth. The website and social media in particular has been massive in getting that out, getting that positive awareness about the industry and the need for people into it as well. There’s not many technicians in Australia that qualify for the rope access at this point in time and definitely not enough to keep up with the works that is going around. For us we’ve really started to think outside the box of where we’re trying to source quality candidates from. We jumped in with the Wirrpanda Foundation. There’s a whole bunch of aboriginal, Torres Islanders and indigenous candidates coming through which we’re taking in and training up. That has been a really successful program for us. Another one we’re currently with Defence Force Transition program pulling in a whole bunch of qualified ADF veterans which for me is a phenomenal program which we’re very proud of.
Brendan: Just tell me a little bit about how that would work. It’s ex-army or ex-military looking for the next step in their career.
Liam: We go through an organization called With You, With Me. They’ve got a database full of veterans. We say to With You, With Me we’ve got this position. These are the qualifications that you need or the training. Go find people on our behalf. They basically act as an HR consultancy agency. They send us all the resumes and in return we hold what we call assessment days. We run them through this is rope access. We do have a lot of people come in. They yes, this is amazing and then they realize that it’s quite a high height that they have to work from. They suddenly realize that they’re scared of heights. Not for them. We basically run through everything that is rope access, answer any questions, put them on the days and part of the With You, With Me is basically they receive government funding to be able to assist that veteran into new employments.
It’s fantastic because from a safety point of view I’ve got people out in the field that have been tried, tested and proven and trained by the best organizations in the southern hemisphere in you can’t argue with the worst situations. If anything goes wrong not that we expect them too but if anything happens out in the field our medical response crosses management incident response. I know I’ve got one or two people in each and every crew, in each and every shift that can essentially take on that situation on my behalf.
Brendan: It sounds to me like the risks are it’s obviously not for the faint hearted, working at heights and being in remote areas but what would you say are the sort of the key safety risks? Is it around that wellbeing angle?
Liam: Everything in Australia, some of the animals, it’s the equipment. For us, the environment in itself is very hazardous. Obviously remote. You’re working away. Emergency service officers, sometimes they can be half an hour away if anything does go wrong. On the mental health side of things the risks doesn’t stop the moment the work and the tools are dropped, put on the floor. That’s it. We’re done for this shift. It’s the source of that governance and that sort of oversight in the camps as well to make sure that our crews are all right. For us the risk, the mental health is huge for us and on top of that obviously the dropped objects and any governance that has got to do with working at height as a whole, making the rope areas are set out, the rope detectors are used, carabineers are properly locked in. Just the absolute basics and to say the rope access technicians as a whole because they face that risk pretty much in the face every second of every shift they’re very open to safety. They’re very open to hearing different viewpoints. If you talk to any roper they will literally talk your head off all afternoon about rope access.
Brendan: I’m also thinking fatigue management would have to be a bit of an issue as well.
Liam: It is. We’re going through a big overhaul internally with the way that we’ve managed the fatigue. We’ve been given a whole bunch of documents from our clients and we’re going through making sure that everything fits over the planning software and the internal management system that we have here. We’re basically going to be saying this is the maximum amount of work that you can work over a three month period.
Brendan: If it’s fly in, fly out work and you were saying 12 hour shifts how long would they typically go on, would they be flying in for?
Liam: It all depends on the shots sometimes. Two to four week long shots, other times it’s two or three days and it’s always the holidays. It’s definitely a range of work especially with the dates and the times and the locations as well.
Brendan: It sounds like there’s never a dull day Liam.
Liam: It’s fantastic. It makes the week go so much quicker. I’ll be a 100 by the time I retire.
Brendan: Where do you see sort of the future going with Tasman Rope Access or just with the industry in general? Do you see anything sort of on the horizon that is of interest or coming up?
Liam: There’s a few things with Tasman going on. Obviously we’re setting up a few more offices across Australia later on the year. That is quite exciting getting involved in the new areas and bringing the rope access industry into new areas which currently don’t have it. From my point of view I’d love to see the social impact program be further cemented into the company. We’re able to bring more candidates through and bring more quality people into the rope access industry from a whole walk of different streams of life. The rope access industry as a whole, it’s amazing now even the innovation. Two years ago rope access was considered innovation now it’s almost rope access the norm. Now we are moving into drones and UAVs and a whole bunch of suspended decking services. We’re going to see a lot more integration of technology definitely into the rope access sector in a way that things work.
Brendan: That sounds amazing. I’ve got five very short questions for you before we wrap up. How old are you?
Liam: I’m 31.
Brendan: What do you like to do to keep fit? It doesn’t sound like you have too much time Liam.
Liam: I’m in the gym every morning, box every second morning. By the time I realize I’m getting punched regularly in the head it’s time to go to work. I’ve got a young dog as well working long shifts and he keeps more than busy at night training him and getting all the energy out of him.
Brendan: How many hours sleep are you getting each night?
Liam: Normally about five to six.
Brendan: Do you have any personal achievements you’re looking to do in the next 12 months?
Liam: University studies mainly and then continue the Zero Harm metric that we have made internally since 2015. Two big ones but we’re working towards it each day.
Brendan: If you could be remembered for one business achievement what do you think that might be? In other words what is your legacy? What do you like to leave behind?
Liam: I like the fact that I’m assisting those who potentially couldn’t get into the industry to be able to come into the industry and get that crack, a brand new lease on life especially that social impact program that we run. That is something which I’m quite proud of internally and the rest of us are as well.
Brendan: If people want to find out a little bit more about Tasman Rope Access what is the website?
Liam: TasmanRopeAccess.com otherwise we’re on Instagram, Facebook and then LinkedIn as well.
Brendan: That is excellent. Liam, thanks very much for coming on the show today.
Liam: Welcome. Thanks for having us Brendan. I appreciate it.
Courses relevant to this podcast include:
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- Canberra Working at Heights Training Courses
- Working at Heights Training Courses – Solutions for Business
TRANSCRIPT
Unknown Speaker
This is an ohs.com.au production Welcome to Episode 22 of the Australian Health and Safety business podcasts on Brendan Torazzi, the host of the show and today I'm with Liam O'Connor from Tasman rope access. Good morning, lamb. Good morning, Brendan. How are you? I'm well. So thanks for coming on the show this morning. Tell me a little bit about what Tasman rope access starts.
Unknown Speaker
Oh, it says, well, we've been around since we've been in early 2015. When they all sort of jumped on board with the original company 2000 pounds, the board directors came together and identified nation the market for rope access. So the best way I can put it for anyone that's listening that doesn't know what it is when you when you walk down the street and you see guys abseiling down the side of buildings, clean the windows. That's what we do effectively. But we basically stick trays men and women onto the ropes across oil and gas mining, agriculture, defense, civil construction, a whole range of industry, so never quite those you can imagine.
Unknown Speaker
So presumably, like in some of those, like oil and gas, what sort of work would they be doing when they're on a row is attending to, to, I don't know, machinery? Or?
Unknown Speaker
Oh, it all depends on on a specific workload, a lot of the time it's wrapping pylons, and a lot of blasting and painting in, you know, protective coating application, that sort of thing. So I'm geared basically wherever scaffold was previously required, we can we can stick people on ropes down there a knife and you know, her way we go. So when it comes to just one or two services, it's it's very, very sweet. We tend to have quite a few, quite a few different services done under the under the same work order.
Unknown Speaker
Yep. And then so how many people would you employ in the right access business?
Unknown Speaker
Right, I think there's, there's about 450 members that are accredited to write a worldwide on our books. We checked the other day just over 410. And then any one time we've got over 250, technicians across Australia. So it's an awesome busy, we just, we just can't keep up with the work at the moment, unfortunately.
Unknown Speaker
But so I've come across the router a little bit before what's the difference between a router training and say you're working at heights ticket? Do you need both? Or is is
Unknown Speaker
enough we do. Yeah, but the the router training courses are split into different levels. So when you first come into the industry, you do a level one. That's a five day course with a half day assessment at the end of it teaches you a whole bunch of passing knots and the foundations really of rope access, then you get given them what's called a logbook, you get given the card and then all the way through your career, you can basically get hours signed off on the type of work by your level three, who's the basically the rope access safety coordinator for that area. So once you do 1000 hours logged, and then you pass a year, you're eligible to sit at level two is a little bit more intensive. And then from there, it's another 1000 hours and then you can basically become a level three, but we do find a lot, especially the younger guys and girls who don't tend to go to level three straightaway simply because it's there, they're off the road they said the area are up and you know, they're affected efficiently known as pole polishes in the industry, they lean on a pole, make sure everyone's riding clearly I just basically perform rescues as required. So that's the nicer a nicer specialized deform.
Unknown Speaker
So people getting in the industry it sounds like that they genuinely love being on the ropes so to speak. And whereas level three is more like a manager or a supervisor or something like that
Unknown Speaker
it is yeah, we've it's a very special type of person attracted the robotics industry with a height alone, you know, we've we've got guys in their spare time, they'll go skydiving, the rock, couple of Red Bull sponsored guys as well. And I've just got emails the other day from, from a group of guys are on their break, and they're down in Antarctica climbing climbing glaciers. So it's really junky sort of industry, that's for sure.
Unknown Speaker
It's a it's a lifestyle.
Unknown Speaker
It is it's very much a lifestyle. And these guys live, breathe and eat at night. So it's a it's a lot of fun.
Unknown Speaker
And so how do you play into all of this land? Are you have you gone through that irata training yourself? Like how you got into what you want in the role you are now and what do you do? Basically, I
Unknown Speaker
fell into it. Like most people well, I was completely oblivious to this whole industry, it was very underground at that point in time. Now it's sort of become more mainstream, especially with mining, in particular picking up the the rope access side of things. But basically, I was I was made redundant from my previous roles working for a national engineering company and like everyone else that goes through redundancy, you go through that full range of emotions. Yeah. We basically kind of reassess everything apply for a job with a company called Tasman and we're pulled in for an interview and yeah, basically they said, look, we've got this this HSE manager role. Would you be interested and we've got this little side project going on at the moment called tasm. rope access, you know, they're brand new general manager. He's been relocated from the East Coast to help build it. And then basically off people have gone on like a house on fire after a year and other operations manager jumped on board. The three of us pretty much since early 2016 have just been building trails and road access side. And on top of that, obviously, look after Tasman power, or the electrical side of the business as well, it's about 150 or 180 sparkies out the field and he wants on. And then the board of directors, which actually owned the company based in South Australia have taken the step up to the group role with them. So working across all their South Australia and New South Wales and Queensland subsidiaries as well. So yeah, very, very philon, as you can imagine, especially with the time difference between WA and the rest of the states, especially the summer months.
Unknown Speaker
And so is the bulk of the work for Tasman rope access in WA, or is it a national,
Unknown Speaker
with the it is national, we'll say about 60% of the work is, is across West Australia, about 10 to 15 in South Australia and the remainder over in Queensland office as well. So we've just branched into Mount iser and wafer and a couple other places around this.
Unknown Speaker
So why did why do you think that? I mean, the company is pretty young. I know you've got husband, how but why do you think there was such a gap in the market? I mean, presumably, all these companies, all these industries needed these services what what what was happening before,
Unknown Speaker
the main the main issues we're having previously is people look at someone dangling off a rope, and they automatically go, No, that is not coming onto my site. And it's more about the educational piece. You know, the anyone who's interested in Australian standards, there is a rope access standard, but it hasn't updated for the best of the best the two and a half decades. And the same goes to the working at height. So it's a self regulated industry, with the accreditation to a rider on top of that. And then as they've realized the potential, you know, reductions in dropped objects and scaffolding risks and other portfolio over in Sydney the other week, get a prime example. It's quickly self regulated, and there's level three influence on the field as well. The clients see the safety side of things as a positive after a liberal education session on what rope access is. And then on top of that, you know, we're able to access pretty much any area without the need for scaffold so you save all the money on the scaffolding costs on the additional tradesmen the time lost between you know, changing permits and changing the equipment. So yeah, it's it's it's a safer option and on top of that, it's a more of a quicker and more time effective option as well.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, right. I get it now. So it's a real it's a real win win for everyone. It is yes. Yeah. Now that's, that's free and then go back a little bit for me, how did you how did you start your career in health and safety?
Unknown Speaker
First, I first got my gig with Rio Tinto as a graduate it was a three month position then it's only to six and then at the end of six I jumped over to BHP so you know, started the mining game and have pretty much been I've been involved ever since moved over to where else are next and bound Gibson mining so I was across towering peaks, extension hill and then there was another one called an island before the all the all the fun went down there with the with the natural thing collapsing. We've gone to Sodexo up in Carozza. From there and then moved into that national role with the engineering company. That was was 2012 or the life and then been with us since 2015. And yeah, just fun and games ever since.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah. Wow. So you've learned? Have you? Have you sort of done? You said you're a graduate of Rio? Did you? Did you have a tertiary qualification? So
Unknown Speaker
I'm one of those. One of those weird guys who likes to study a little bit about everything. So often the grad cert OHS through a discount IBM and proves that a cert for but it's on my main my background with the with the qualifications is pretty much all evil because simply I you know, back in 2020 Well, 2010 almost I think it was I could sort of see the the whole market was sort of shifting towards a national harmonization. And obviously, with that comes a whole bunch of legal compliance and all the, you know, the corporate governance that goes on top of it as well. So I started studying law, international business law, business commerce, you know, a lot of commercial stuff. So yeah, it's it's definitely definitely come in handy, especially as the career sort of grown and to work on safety sort of figures itself out over the next couple of decades as well.
Unknown Speaker
Yep. And so, what do you see? When we were speaking before you as you mentioned mental health? How does that sort of play into you know, what you're doing now is it is an issue for people working on both sides of buildings and that sort of thing? Or are they generally pretty up? up because they got the adrenaline pumping? And it's an exciting job.
Unknown Speaker
It's more than remoteness. Right?
Unknown Speaker
Right. There's,
Unknown Speaker
I can go into a whole rant for a number. I want to say off like the listeners, but basically the way it works is you know, the guys and girls work away they're away from the family that away from the support network. And on top of that, you've got a whole range of emotions going on because the hormones are just all over the joint between disjointed sleep between transitioning from days nights and then back again, half The time and then 12 hour shifts and traveling to and from sight and sometimes the food's not too fantastic and the gym routine is thrown out there. On top of that you're expected to Skype the wife, the husband, the kids, and keep some form of sanity. Whilst it's for us, you know, the the main thing that we we really focus on with our crews is if anything personal comes up that you need to go sought out? Don't we don't need to know the specifics, but just know that you can you can ask be flown out at any time. That's you know,
Unknown Speaker
that's, that's amazing. I mean, that's that's, I wouldn't imagine that many companies would take that approach.
Unknown Speaker
Oh, we have to simply Well, first of all, the whole rope access industry is one big family anyway. Secondly, I'd much prefer someone being able to have the ability to, you know, leave site and go. So what the issues out then potentially the complete opposite. And most are interesting happening, which, you know, it does happen across the mining and gas industries, a fair bit just doesn't really get too too much exposure, to be honest. But you know, we've got all the basic stuff in the background of the healthy eating and engagement and, you know, the real community sense. And that recognition programs, on top of that have also got the professional development that goes on internally, where we are taking people aside and said, Look, this is your PD program that we're visiting for the next three to five years, we do have a traditional way to have a younger workforce on average. So the moment we find out, you know, what they're all about what they want to do with their career, we can sort of come in and say, look, listen, this is, you know, this isn't just a short game, you're not just looking for this 10 days work, and then you're going away, and then come back for another three, we've actually we want to bring you on board for next three to five years and really started develop you as a person and your career as well.
Unknown Speaker
So, like, I guess, younger people listening to the show isn't, like, isn't paid? Well, to be, I guess it depends on what level you are, in some ways, but
Unknown Speaker
it is. Level three is obviously gotta get paid the most because the way that it works, that you can't actually have a worker setup without a level three. Level wasn't too so the amount you'd be looking at about four weeks worth of courses. I'm not too sure that the rates from other companies but then yeah, very well paid. It's definitely you know, definitely more than that because down the road or work in a bar job.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, there's, I guess what you're saying is with all the with the four weeks of training, can anyone pick it up? Or do you have to have a special skill set to I don't know to do this type of work.
Unknown Speaker
The the entry in in into the industry is the rigging and doggy but we do have a lot of the majority of our workforce or trade qualified money boilies you know, welders, a few fitters, electricians. So as long as someone's pretty savvy with how to use a handle, you know, company can take them under their wing and teach them what they need to get me to get done out in the field.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, right. Because yeah, it's not just being on the ropes, it's actually being able to do stuff while you're on there as well. That's, yeah, yeah, that's good. And then there's like, do people tend to stick around for quite a while, we,
Unknown Speaker
we find we've got a good retention rate, and then below that round at a low 90%, simply because we focus so much on the culture of the company. You know, it's not, I'm not saying everyone holds hands or skips off into the sunset. It's because we're, we're really, really protective on the culture. And just because someone has rope access ticket doesn't just mean they're coming straight on to our books, either. We want everyone against our values as a company, and you know, where they're going to fit in with the cruise ourself. And that's where that social impact program that we're running currently, as well. Our values align with different different contractors out in society, and we're happy to, to fill gaps and use them, you know, use the company as an instrument for positive change. Yeah. And
Unknown Speaker
so how do you how do you grow it from here? Is it is it a challenge getting enough? Staff
Unknown Speaker
we're doing a lot of trade expos at the moment, just raising the awareness for going to schools, we're going to try colleges, you know, word of mouth. The website and social media in particular has been massive in the in getting that getting that positive awareness about the industry and you know, the need for people into it as well. You know, there's, there's not many, there's not many technicians in Australia that are qualified for the rope access at this point in time, and definitely not enough to keep up with the work that's going around. So for us, we've really start to think outside of the box of where we're trying to source quality candidates from so we've, we've jumped in with the work on the foundation. So there's a whole bunch of Aboriginal Torres Strait Islanders and indigenous candidates coming through which we're taking in and training up. And yeah, that's been a really successful program for us. Another one. We're currently working with Defense Force transition program, pulling a whole bunch of qualified ATF veterans, which is for me, it's it's a phenomenal program, which we're very, very proud of.
Unknown Speaker
So just tell me a little bit about how that would work. So it's one ex army or ex military that are looking for the next step in their career or
Unknown Speaker
year. That's right. So basically, we go through an organization called with you with me, they've got a database full of veterans, we say with you with me, look, listen, we've got this position, these the qualifications that you need with the training, go find go find people on our behalf and they basically act as a HR consultancy agency, they send us all the resumes. In return, we hold what we call assessment days we run them through this is rope access, you know, we do have a lot of people come in they go, Yep, this is amazing. And then they realize that it's quite a high height that they have to work from. And they suddenly they do they suddenly realize they're scared of heights, not for them. So we basically run through everything that's rope access, answer any questions put their mind at ease. And then part of the with you with me is basically they receive government funding to be able to assist that, that veteran into new employments by it's familiar, it's fantastic, because, you know, from a safety point of view, I've got people out in the field that have been tried, tested and proven and trained by the best organizations in the southern hemisphere and tested in potentially what you could argue that we the worst situations were tested. So for me if anything goes wrong, not that we expect them to, but if anything happens out, out in the field, medical response, crisis management incident response, I know, I've got one or two people in each and every crew, and each and every shift that can potentially take all that situation on my behalf.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, so it sounds to me like the risks are, like, it's obviously not for the faint hearted, working at heights and, you know, being in remote areas, but what would you say are the sort of the key safety risks is it around that sort of well being angle or
Unknown Speaker
everything, everything in Australia is is on a keel, you see some of the animals, it's the equipment. We've, for us, it's the, with the environment in itself is very, very hazardous. As you can imagine, obviously, remote, you're working away emergency service offices, sometimes they can be up to half an hour away, if anything does go wrong, you know. And then to throw in the fact the mental health side of things where the rest doesn't stop the moment the work from the tools, you know, dropped on the floor, that's it, we're done. But the ship is also that governance and that that sort of oversight in the camps as well to make sure that our crews are right. So for, for us with the risks, the mental health is huge for us. And on top of that, obviously, they dropped objects. And any governance has got to do with with working at height as a whole, making sure the rope areas are set out the right protectors are used that you know, Caribbean has been properly locked in just the absolute basics, you know, and to say, you know, the rope access technicians as a whole, because they face that risk, pretty much in the face, every every second of every shift. They're very, very open to safety, they're very open to hearing different viewpoints. And they'll if you talk to any rovuma, there will literally talk your head off all afternoon about rope access. So I'm
Unknown Speaker
also I'm also thinking fatigue management would have to be a bit of an issue as well.
Unknown Speaker
It is yes, we're actually going through a big overhaul internally, with the way that we've we managed the fatigue, we've been given a whole bunch of documents from our clients. And we're going through making sure that everything fits over the planning software and the internal management system that we have here. So we're basically gonna be saying that this is the maximum amount of hours that you can work over a three month period.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Because if it's fly in fly out work, and you were saying 12 hour shifts? Since? How long? Would they how long? Would they typically go on? A? Would they be flown in for? Oh, it
Unknown Speaker
all depends on the shot sometimes. Yeah. 234 week long shots. Other times? It's two or three days, it's almost a holiday. Yeah, definitely arranged range of work, especially with the dates and the times and the locations as well.
Unknown Speaker
Well, it sounds like there's never a dull day, Liam.
Unknown Speaker
It's fantastic. It makes the week so much quicker. I'll be I'll be 100 volatile on
Unknown Speaker
these. And then so what where do you see sort of the future going? I don't know, with Tasman rope access, or just with the industry in general, is that anything sort of on the horizon that's of interest. So
Unknown Speaker
you're definitely there's a few things with which hasn't gone on. Obviously, we're setting up a few more offices across Australia, later on in the year. So that's, that's quite exciting, getting involved in in the new, you know, new areas and bringing the rope access industry into areas which currently don't have perfect my point of view, I'd love to see the social impact program basically be further cemented into the company, we're able to bring more candidates through and bring more quality people into the rope access industry from a whole walk of different diverse streams of life. The rope access industries industry as a whole how it's amazing. Now, even the innovation, two years ago rope access was was considered innovation. Now it's almost rope access is the norm. And now we're moving into you know, drones and UAVs and a whole bunch of different you know, suspended decking services. We're gonna see a lot more integration of technology and definitely into the rope access sector and the way that things work.
Unknown Speaker
That's That sounds amazing. All right. Well, I've got just very five very short questions for you before we wrap up
Unknown Speaker
and let's go here we go here.
Unknown Speaker
How are they easy question. So how are they is
Unknown Speaker
an answer that was for them. Hopefully I'm still young. I'm 31. So
Unknown Speaker
31. And then what do you like to do to keep fit? Doesn't feel like you'd have too much time. Let me
Unknown Speaker
I just make time. I'm in the gym every morning, box every second morning. So by the time I'm realizing it punched repeatedly in the head, it's time to go to work. So I'm still waking up when I'm in there. And then I've got a very young dog as well, working on Shepherd, he keeps me more than more than busy at night training him and getting all the energy out of him.
Unknown Speaker
Excellent, excellent. How many hours sleep you're getting a chance?
Unknown Speaker
I wish I could say something that's safe, but normally about five to six months.
Unknown Speaker
Take it out. And if you could be all sorry, do you have any personal achievements you're looking to, to do in the next 12 months?
Unknown Speaker
Oh, university studies mainly. And then continue the zero harm? You know, metric that we've we've met in certainly since 2015. So the two big ones, but we're working towards each other.
Unknown Speaker
And then finally, if you could be remembered for one business achievement, what do you think that might be? In other words, what legacy What would you like to leave behind?
Unknown Speaker
I'd like the fact that I'm assisting those who potentially couldn't get into the industry to be able to come into the industry and get that crack into a brand new NET Brand new lease of life, especially through that social impact program that we run. That's, that's something which I'm quite proud of. And totally, you know, the rest of us are so
Unknown Speaker
yeah, now that sounds amazing. Now, if people want to find out a little bit more about Tasman rope access, what's the website
Unknown Speaker
says and rope access.com. Otherwise, we're on Instagram, Facebook, and then what's the other one LinkedIn? LinkedIn as well. So
Unknown Speaker
now that's excellent. Okay, Liam, thanks very much for coming on the show today.
Unknown Speaker
No, you're welcome. Thanks for having us. Brenda. Fresh out.